Moai 200 or Phrozen Transform?


#1

I love Peopoly products, the open group support. I am very interested in purchasing the Moai 200, but don’t know much about it in terms of when it will be available, how much it will cost and mechanical details.

There is an urgency for me as the other option I am considering is the current KickStarter offering of the Phrozen Transform and I can only purchase the Moai 200 or the Transform at this point. Any suggestions, recommendations. Why should I not purchase the Transform, or should I?

Thank you in advance for some constructive opinions and thought.

Bob


#2

We don’t really comment on other brand but we have started shipping and have field users for Moai 200 already. I believe the delivery date for Transofrm is later this year.


#3

I understand and appreciate your policy with regard to refraining from commenting on competitor machines. However, you could tell me why SLA (laser) is better than DLP/LCD. In addition when would I be able to purchase the Moai 200? What is the price? Pictures? or mechanical description? Does it have a wiper blade, or was that the DFA?

Thank you for your time.


#4

For the SLA vs DLP part, Formlab has a pretty good article here.

It’s rather in “favor” of SLA but at the end of the day it all depends on what you plan to do with it.


#5

Hi Joe, thank you for the reply… Thank you for the link, it is something I have already read… Can you tell me, are there certain types of resins that will only work with laser and not LCD?


#6

Hi! The resins used for SLA printers differs from the once used for LCD printers eg if you use resins for a LCD printer in a SLA printer the PDMS VAT’s lifespan shortens dramatically (it fogs up due to the higher heat created).

Peopoly has a table of suggested settings for other brand resins on the Moai.

I assume it also works the other way around so that resins for SLA printers doesn’t work as intended on a LCD printer.


#7

Well more specifically is there a finished print that a laser can produce better than LCD in terms of quality, rigidness, strength etc… For instance, I am pretty impressed with Form Labs RIGID resin and the parts made with it… Would a similar result be possible on the Moai or even an LCD? Thank you


#8

Laser can produce a consistent amount of details independently of the objects size or amount.

DLP technology on the other hand have a resolution limited by the screen used when printing. You can mitigate this problem by using a different screen that will concentrate most of the light in a small zone, thus virtually increasing the resolution but you will still have a better surface finish with a laser.

Now it all depends on what you want to make, the Phrozen Transform have some cool features and a huuuge build volume that must be taken into account. Also DLP printers are faster than SLA.

I encourage you to read this article, it may help you in your decision process.

For the resins I think they are pretty similar regarding mechanical properties. For example Peopoly have a tough resin similar to the Form Labs RIGID resin.

So it all comes down to what you want to do.

Note also that the Moai is a really good printer comparable to the Form2 but it’s more hobbyist oriented so ask yourself if you are ready to invest time and effort to make it work or you just want an out of the box solution.


#9

Hey Joe, I really appreciate your help… As for the link to the article, I read that one too a week or two ago… I didn’t end up here totally blind ;-)… I actually do have a couple of DLP/LCD printers (Photon) as well as one SLA/Laser Nobel 1.0… But still newish in the resin game… I was going to go the way of Form 2, but I am a techie, I build machines, and I don’t need plug n play like some in an office environment. I can roll up my sleeves and dig in. Yes, I do print things as part of my R&D prototyping business, so I will need something that just works, but I don’t mind getting it there on my own, and a learning curve in the process. Obviously the Tranform intrigues me because of the LARGE VOLUME, but I am concerned about any peel issues, that they do and my have. I am concerned about the custom LCD future availability. I have a little concern about their ability to deliver, small concern, but still a risk. I love the OPEN aspect of Peopoly, that is a major plus for me. I am selling my Nobel 1.0, actually is has never even been taken out of its box… So, I’d like to have a laser be it the Moai 130 or 200, preferably the 200 but not at twice the price, not sure it makes sense.

As for build volume XY mostly, is there not an issue with laser in terms of skewing of the beam at the far edges?

Thanks again.
Bob


#10

I would advise you to wait for the Moai 200 or directly contact the Peopoly support so they can give you the specs and the estimated price in advance.

As for the skewing of the beam I really don’t know, I got my Moai 130 few days ago and I’m still playing around with it (mostly trying to solve problems ^__^). I would say, tho not 100% sure, that it’s not a big deal as long as you let a reasonable margin between the vat borders and your model. I have both the PDMS vat and the FEP vat and I don’t see any visual distortion at the edges so I guess there should be no problems.

Out of curiosity, how much do you plan to sell your Nobel 1.0?


#11

I purchased it, and there is nothing wrong with it, but I got hooked on Moai, which is more up my liking and decided not to open the Nobel… I’d like $600 or so.


#12

Tempting but I’ll pass, already have way too many printers for my small apartment and I feel my girlfriend is already on the verge of killing me for transforming our home into an iron man lab :smile:

Keep us updated on the Moai 200 I would also like to know more about it.


#13

Yesterday I got the ALL3DP news email/update. In it there is a comment on the Moai 200 and a link to “more details”. This link takes you to the Matter Hackers web site on which you can pre-order the 200.
Price is $3090.
Expected shipping is 31 Jan.
I have ordered it.
Cannot say anything about new features other than what you see in general info. Heated chamber, bigger print area and the FEP vat.
I have the original Moai and love it. Went for the 200 solely on print area increase. Anything else is a bonus.


#14

Yes, I did read the article in ALL3DP as well… Looks very promising… I really hope that they also included a wiper or some mechanism to keep the resin mixed and cleaning the FEP, much like FormLabs does. I think this would open the door to more resins, especially the type with suspensions such a fibers etc. I have decided to stick with my Transform, and then watch what happens with the 200… Once any bugs are worked out, and assuming they continue with the success of the 130, I will purchase a 200 later this year. The only issue at this point with the 200 is price, why is it almost 3 times that of the 130? I get that they want to make money, as they should, but I fear that Peopoly is going from a “peoples” printer and open group to trying to be a Formlabs, which would be sad IMHO!


#15

Ok
Not sure about “almost 3 times the price”.
I bought my Moai assembled for $1695. The kit version is $1295.
MH does not charge shipping.
Anyway as mentioned I love my Moai, just wish it could do larger prints.


#16

Pricing aside, I would go for the 200 unless you just need miniature prints like I do. If the 200 prints as well as the 130 I would definitely pay 3,000 for it for that extra footprint.

FYI Peopoly has their own slicer program now and it does compensate for the distortion pretty well in my tests so far.


#17

Yes, I will likely purchase the 200… My only concern was beam distortion/blurring at the extreme edges… Other than that, I hope there is a wiper system… Awesome Stuff, no doubt!


#18

Well concerning the distortion at the extreme edges of the vat, Peopoly replied about that in an other post and said that their were no distortions at the edges of the vat.


#19

I’m pretty sure there is no wiper in the 200. The Form 2 has a wiper because it’s using a PDMS vat, which greatly benefits from a wiper. The 200’s FEP vat doesn’t really need a wiper.


#20

Well, yes and no… The wiper also performs another not so obvious function of stirring the resin and anything suspended in the resin from dye to fibers etc., used to add strength to the part.